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This site was developed by Dr. Janet Hethorn, a researcher from the Department of Environmental Design at the University of California Davis. Select one of the visual factors that denote gang identity. How might the adoption of gang symbols affect an individual's
behaviour? In what other types of organizations might we see similar effects of deindividuation? Discuss a recent high-profile incident involving Canadians that illustrates this phenomenon.
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adoption of gang symbols may mean the individual acts like the gang. A great example of this is the armed forces. Would the men of the group, whose name escapes me at this time, have killed that Somali prisoner if they weren't in a group? They weren't acting as individuals, and they were all looked the same.

It was the Airborne regiment, that was involved. Theer were also many other incidents of violence that were discovered during the inquiry. These included hazing rituals, which seem to be part of some gang traditions, and making racist jokes.

Good point Angela!

Gang identity is more than having the same sybols - it involves being alike in as many ways as possible, including behaviour.

Why do you think deindividualization occurs in association with group membership? How do we lose our personal identity in a group?

Connie

By Angela on Friday, October 23, 1998 - 03:28 pm:

I never realised that you can do formatting

I wish I knew before.L
That's okay! I can have fun now!!J Are there anymore clip art things?

I just like to say that it is interesting that Gray addresses the My Lai massacre. In my sociology 224 clas in spring seession we talked about it (and eugenics) in reference to deviance. We talked about the idea that a person was more likely to go along with the killing even if they that it was amoral. (The effects of this caused many horrible psychological problems for these men later on) The deindividualization causes them to feel unresonsible for their actions. They also want to fit in, this applies more to street gangs. They want to be like their peers and do what they do.

Adoption of the gang symbols, is a step towards the adoption of the gang lifestyle. An individuual that participates in displaying those symbols, effectivly gives up their indivduality. When an third person sees that person, the intial reaction is one that denotes the person as a member of a group or society of some sort. Furthermore, by adopting those symbols, be it gang related, or a symbol of some society, that person makes a consciencious choice. That choice will surely effect that person's views and actions. For Example, an individual with a certian sybmol, will react to others, with similiar or differnt symbols differently. A person with a simliar symbol may be greeted, while one with a different symbol may be targeted for aggression.

In organizations such as cults, sport teams, and some religious groups deindividuation occurs. The milatary is a good example of this, where the general orders a carry out and individual is required to do as he says. The motives and ideals of the group outweigh those of the individual.

Angela, I gave you my telephone number last time in case you need it you can call me or e-mail me at XRUBINAX@aol.com

Hmm...this site was really Interesting! I didn't realize there was so much involved in gang identity. I kind of think about how I hang around with my friends (a mini-gang if you will :) and how much we have in common. Things such as same tastes in music, sports and Television shows (Simpsons RULE ;) seem to bind us together. There was one person in our little "gang" that didn't like simpsons, but after a few years, she's just like one of us, watching it atleast once a day. Whether she started to enjoy the show or just felt she needed to confrom may be in dispute, but I think it might a been a little bit of both.
I liked the point that Angela gave of the Airborne regiment...there is alot of that, especially in sports. When I was playing for the Senior soccer team at my high school, every rookie would have to go through an initiation. If you didn't, you weren't considered part of the team. Even the coaches would encourage this behaviour, believing this would make the team closer....a closer gang if you will.

I wouldn't agree with the assumption that we lose our self identity in a gang...in many ways, "we're one, but we're not the same" (a quote from Bono, leasd singer for U2). What I mean is that we as members (whether it be on a soccer team or in a group of friends) all have a certain role to play in a gang, yet our personal differences is what makes us all unique. Things like uniforms are used to portray a unity within a group, which can be found in places as common as McDonald's, The Edmonton Oilers, or even on parliment hill (with the funny wigs ;)

Oh, and another thing that occured to me while I was reading the part about how the Latino gang women would "resent others taking on this particular style because it somehow [lessened] the power of their original intent and [showed] a lack of respect." I have a friend in the U.S army, and he also found it disgusting to see the Denver Broncos doing the "mile high salute" everytime they got a touchdown (for those of you who don't know what a "mile high salute" is, its a salute given to another player, after he scores a touchdown...very similar to a salute given to a higher ranking official, showing repect for them). He didn't like the fact that for the most part, none of the people on the team even knows how to do a proper salute! They take something that the military uses as a sign of respect, and turn it into a mockery (btw, Jaormir Jagar of the NHL also does this..more poorly even, as my friend points out!)

btw, sorry about the timing of my messages...I didn't get into town until late tonight....hey Rubina, if You have ICQ, then maybe we can have a 3-way chat tommorow or something...share our ideas or something....email me or something...
dk2@gpu.srv.ualberta.ca

10:52 PM --------------------------------------
ICQ Chat Save file
Started on Sun Oct 25 22:50:45 1998

--------------------------------------
<Angela> hey
<Angela>
<DaKim> lala...how's it going? I asked Rubina if she had ICQ..then we could 3-way...but I think I remember her saying she didn't have computer...I dunno...
<DaKim>
<Angela> Yah I'm not sure but her new mail address is. at aol so we'll see
<Angela>
<Angela> Simpsons?
<Angela>
<DaKim> yeah....did you like the yes...hehe..I miseed the first few 15 minutes...my brother was watching football...buffalo bills vs some crappy team ;)
<DaKim>
<Angela> ..... NFL sucks..
<Angela>
<DaKim> hehe....yes..I'd have to agree....but they have better looking cheer leaders.....
<DaKim> ...umm...that's what I hear atelast ;)
<DaKim> least ;)
<DaKim>
<DaKim>
<Angela> anyway I thought Simpsons was pretty funny, but I thought it was supposed to an hour, or at least they said there was going to be two episodes
<Angela>
<DaKim> It was...you didn't see the 2nd part?
<Angela> no the 70's show was on
<Angela>
<Angela> hmmmm, I thought it was supposed to be at 9 and 930
<Angela>
<DaKim> ...hmm...I think you caught the 2nd episode and missed the fisrt....the 2nd one invloved maggie being !/2 alien...the 1st episode had Homer buying the tranforming machine.....(I think someone forgot to change their clocks ;)
<Angela> nonono
<Angela>
<Angela>
<Angela>
<Angela>
<DaKim> (but yeah, TV always screws up when it comes to scheduling on daylight sayvings time )
<DaKim>
<DaKim>
<Angela> Oh well
<Angela>
<Angela>
<Angela>
<Angela>
<DaKim> anyways...onto the subject at hand (Varnhagen will be going crazy right now if she knew this is all we're talking about ;)
<DaKim>
<Angela> please, she must know that any normal university student watches the Simpsons
<Angela>
<Angela>
<DaKim> HAHAHAHA....your right....we do have lives.... ;)
<DaKim>
<DaKim> anyhoo
<Angela> anyway I think that we all seem to agree that the gang site is way more interesting
<Angela>
<DaKim>
<DaKim> For sure...I think that the other site may have been more intersting, IF we didn't do it in class, since it does pose a very interesting dillemma...but the Gang site is more intersting too...it can be found in all walks of life....
<DaKim>
<Angela> for example, system jackets!!!
<Angela>
<DaKim> ;)
<Angela> and those funny gloves that turn into mitts
<Angela>
<Angela> and jeans
<Angela>
<DaKim>
<Angela> and Simpsons!!
<Angela>
<Angela> yup
<Angela>
<DaKim> yes...simpsons (did you read my message?)....I converted another person...excellent....+
<DaKim>
<DaKim>
<Angela> I think what's interesting is how everyone else sees gang symbols, I mean when you see someone wearing a weird patch or have their shirt tucked in funny, you automatically assume the worst, until the synmbol becomes mainstream
<Angela>
<DaKim> I agree...its kinda funny...gang symbols are so varied, it can be found in police uniforms, or baseball caps..and yteah, I'd also have to agreee with the fact that many gnag symbols cause us to think the worst in people (prejudice...just like last week's site ;)
<DaKim>
<DaKim>
<Angela> yup. I think I have to look at the site again quickly, was the image map at the bottom working when you tried it?
<Angela>
<DaKim>
<DaKim> Image map?
<DaKim> k...I"ll go look at it too...never hurts to read it over again.
<Angela> hold on
<Angela>
<Angela> nope it doesn't seem to work it probally goes to the same stuff, but I thought I'd check
<Angela>
<DaKim>
<DaKim>
<DaKim>
<DaKim>
<DaKim> what kind of gang do you hang around with, and what striking symbols would tell you apart from other people?
<Angela> umm
<Angela>
<Angela>
<DaKim> (I remember in High school, how all the senior football team members would all wear their jackets before a big game, I guess showing unity, and lack of individuality at the same time too)
<DaKim>
<DaKim> hahaha
<Angela> I dunno, I hang out with 'geeks' we love our computers, and we love RATT oh and card games, but thats nopt all who I hang out with, my boyfriend is a geologist, that's a gang in itself :)
<Angela>
<DaKim>
<Angela> but seriously I feel that I'm much less of a conformist than some peple
<DaKim>
<Angela> example, is whan you walk down hub and you see ultra skinny girl wearing black "suits" w/ the flare bottoms and also a ton of make up, I don't understand, this is a BRAIN contest not a bueaty contest. It's not about impressing your friends anymore, or it shouldn't be.
<Angela>
<Angela> or vice versa
<Angela>
<Angela> yah
<DaKim> True, but not all people come to the university to learn...it is also, in a sence, a "meat market" if you will, wher girls who may not have the brains are looking for a guy who is, or vise versa. like I said.
<Angela>
<DaKim>
<DaKim>
<DaKim> (probably)
<Angela> Maybe I see things much differently, I went through all that in highscholl, then I was away for a couple of years, (it probaly also has to do with the fact that I have a boyfriend, and I also have to work realy hard to get through school - Idon't have time!!)
<Angela>
<DaKim>
<DaKim> Time is never something that's in excess....
<Angela> I think we need to get back more directly to the topic though, I think its interest
<Angela>
<DaKim> I agree...what do you think about gang identity, and how much individuality is lost when you join a gang...in my opinion, I think it changes, depending on what gang your in...
<DaKim>
<Angela> For sure, a criminal gang, for example, You feel like your safe to commit crimes, everyone else is doing it and not getting caught, therefore... But it also means you don't have to think about your oncious,
<Angela> but a gang like our "gangs" most people are smart enough to think about right and wrong and aren't stupid enough to jump of a bridge.
<Angela>
<Angela>
<DaKim> True...its a good point, don't get me wrong, I was just kinda asking whether you lose your individuality in gangs, and to what extent... iguessyou kinda asnwered it....just not in a way I was expecting...
<DaKim> go on
<Angela> well in direct regards to individuality, our gangs its usually a clothing style and entertainment choices, but ultimatly you choose the overall way of life, but in a gang in the streets of LA wear most of these kids came from the projects are dirt poor feel they don't have a choice at first then they join the gang and give up the rest of their choices ie their individuality
<Angela>
<DaKim>
<DaKim> hmm...interesting point....I find also that in institutions like McDonald's and stuff...there really isn't any individualtiy (from the perspective of the consumer)....I guess that's what McDonald's wants too, lack of indidualtiy. But in sports, although they all where the same uniforms, each have a specific task to fill, and each has their own individualtiy to contribute to the group....
<DaKim>
<Angela>
<DaKim> But in gangs like the one's in L.A, where they come from such poor areas, I guess they find comfort in unity, without individuality.
<DaKim>
<DaKim>
<Angela> they become the family, aand you never want to let the family down. Another great example is the armed forces. If you don't act like the rest of the family, there is something wrong with you. You need to be trusted and you need to trust everyone else, if you all act the same then you all must be trustworthy
<Angela>
<DaKim> That is a great point...esp. in the army....where your life is put into the hands of your fellow teammates...and trust is an integral part of the gang in that situation...I guess that's why there is froshing/hazing...to us, it may seem cruel, but to them, its a ritual that proves your trust worthyness
<Angela>
<Angela> exactly
<Angela>
<Angela> and anyone who wears the same symbol as you is likely trustworthy, and those who don't aren't.
<Angela>
<DaKim>
<Angela> Blue coats/ gray coats
<Angela>
<Angela>
<DaKim> yup
<DaKim>
<Angela> Well do you want to meet again on Tuesday briefly
<Angela>
<DaKim> Sure, I think it would be good....
<Angela> can you paste this up and I"ll email Rubina o get her to comment on it
<Angela>
<DaKim>
<DaKim> yup yup (btw, is there anything you want me to erase?
<DaKim>
<Angela> My brain is tired.. still thinks its 11 50
<Angela>
<DaKim> hahaha
<Angela> umm use your discretion
<Angela>
<Angela>
<DaKim> k....erase what you just wrote ;)
<Angela> yup
<Angela>
<Angela>
<Angela>
<Angela>
<DaKim>
<Angela>
<Angela>
<Angela>
<Angela> oh what time on tues
<DaKim> haha...ok...g'night...see you later then...
<Angela>
<DaKim> umm...I won't be home till 8ish...but my ICQ is on all the time, so just message me and I'll get back to you...
<DaKim>
<Angela> sounds good, I'll come on at 8ish
<Angela>
<Angela>
<Angela> see you
<Angela>
<DaKim>
<DaKim> bye bye ;)
--------------------------------------

Hi guys, long conversation!!! I got my computer from Regina, my parents brought it here, what is icq??? I will write more tomorrow, see you guys good nite!!!

Howdy!
MacDonalds a gang, huh? I guess so. They even have a hair code, don't they? And the franchises are all exactly the same, right down to the greese.
Connie

I tried to download my icq address that you gave me, but I am not sure what you click on so if you guys can tell me what to do that would be great maybe we can talk later on. I will be out after 8:30, so anytime before that if you want to wrtie me AN E-MAIL AT XRUBINA@aol.com

The icq thing doesn't work. I tried it. I'll see you tomorrow in class

Here is our summary:

The adoption of a particular gang's symbols means ultimately that the individual's behavior becomes that of that particular gang. In the web site there is some indication that some gangs are associated with different activities their gang symbols imply certain activities by the individual. Hence the individual is no longer an individual but a part of a team. Example could be McDonald's; the uniform is a symbol, in which they are supposed to follow certain rules or behaviors. They do not act like individual's they act like a member of a team. In addition, in a place like LA you will see many very poor kids joining gangs, usually they feel they do not have much choice, but after that, they give up their individual choice. They are expected to act like and behave like a member of that gang. A great example of another organization is the armed forces. They are expected to behave in certain ways when they are wearing that uniform. They are almost part of one entity, they all look as close to the same as possible (shaved heads, or same style (up for women) the same uniform and some wear hats that obscure the face so its harder to tell specific features). Unfortunately, this organization has some bad behaviors as well. Hazing rituals for one (that usually occurs in street gangs and other groups as well) these are done to make sure the person is part of the team... if you beat the crap or humiliate someone and they stay they obviously are trust worthy. Also if you don't act like the rest of the gang in all situations, there is a likely hood you won't be trusted. One example is the MyLai massacre, even those who were against the killing did it anyway and some lost complete control over their own actions. There were still members of that team that didn't do anything (two I believe), but there is some wonder how these people were treated by the rest of their regiment after this incedent. Another example is the Canadian Airborne regiment and the Somalia incident. These people probably never would have committed these atrocities on their own, but since they were in the safety of a group, they did it. In addition, the feeling of wanting to be accepted was a big part of it (especially when we see them laughing at others jokes).
You can find some information on the Somalia inquiry here: http://www.magi.com/~jarmst/2ndsep96.htm
And some info on the My Lai Massacre can be found here: http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/amex/vietnam/trenches/mylai.html