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intro.psych (Psyco 105) Discussion: Group 2 Discussion Group: Social Cognition:Sites to Visit: Beyond Prejudice
By Connie Varnhagen (Admin) on Wednesday, September 2, 1998 - 02:42 pm:
Dr. J. Cole, a psychologist and human relations consultant, developed this site on prejudice. Do Patricia Devine's research findings support the approach advocated in "Beyond Prejudice" to reduce prejudice?
It sounds like the program teaches people to replace negative prejedices with positive thoughts. If this is right then it is very similar to Patricia Devine's research. Dr. Devine suggests that everyone is aware of stereotypes, but non predjudice people disagree or reject the stereotype. From looking more at the site it appears that that it talks about where predjudicies come from, or being aware of the stereotypes.
I'd have to agree with Angela with the fact that this site atleast, thinks that Prejudice can be replaced with "more positive images of the group members about whom one has thought prejudicially." Personally, I find this type of approach a very honorable one, yet impossible. It would almost be like asking people to watch how they're breathing, and constantly monitor it. Although it can be done for a while, is mostly under automation (unconscious control). Unfortunately, I believe that Prejudice, up to an extent, is under automation as well. That's probably why there is so much of it in the world whether its in the form of Sexism, Racism, etc. However, I'm not suggesting that prejudice cannot change, but I think its a little more complicated than that. Furthermore, I don't agree with one of the questions in the little quiz that it provided. I don't understand how racism could have anything to do with "spanking a child." Yet for some reason, Dr. Devine along with others belive it is an integral part of how prejudice starts. Personally, I find this statement revolting. Spanking a child has everything to do with discipline, and nothing to do with racism or prejudice. Its "facts" like these that I think are misleading people.
This is David and Angela's summary:
sorry about the bad organization of this summry. I was having trouble constructing some of the points into sentances :)
Angela and Daki:
My summary is the locus of control one
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It is obvious that you put an awful lot of time, effort and thought into both your discussion and summary. It was a real pleasure to read as you were so engaged in the issue. Your example in the summary (cop) was intriguing and illustrated the point well. Great job!
Go There
Back to Social Cognition Sites to Visit
By Angela on Sunday, October 18, 1998 - 07:38 pm:
By Daki on Sunday, October 18, 1998 - 08:53 pm:
By Angela on Monday, October 19, 1998 - 10:24 am:
There was some disagreement about this site. First of all we had concerns about how "easy" Dr. Cole makes reducing prejudice sound. In talking about how he gave his program to conseler's and after 4 hours they felt more comfortable with their clients. It never says anything about in the long term whether they had the same feelings. we also have to keep in mind that this site is trying to sell something. Yes mentioning that famous human rights activists (such as Archbishop Tutu - Nov. 10?) have written the forwards of his books does give Cole alot more credibility. However, of course he'll make it sound easy. Dr. Devine's solution and his sound very similar. Both suggest replacement of the prejiduce thoughts with more positive thoughts and they also suggest that understanding the stereotype will help people. Eventually these thoughts and feelings will come naturally. There are a couple of problems with this, as David points out, people can't be activly thinking about this at all times. The textbook even states that when students are mentally preoccupied they are more likely to apply the stereotype than when they're not. To quote "stereotypes provide shortcuts tto judgement in situations where we lack the time, mental resourses, or motivation to evaluate the facts or MOTIVATION to evaluate the facts of the individual case." This is basically saying that is is much easier to be racist, sexist, etc. Past events and exposure has a lot to do with how you react to others. Say , for example, you are a New York cop, and say you see a black man dressed in "rapper" style clothes, driving a sports car. What would your reaction be. Taking into consideration the past 4 out of 5 times you pulled someone in this situation over the car was stolen (this is all hypothetical). You also notice a pasesenger sitting in the car, that happens to be white. Now you are a cop, you have to think in a split second what to do, the car isn't speeding, nor is there anything wrong with its lights. Basically my point is that we can't all be activly thinking about things like this all the time. If you've been raised in a situation where rasism is all around you you are more likely to be rasist when you're an adult, although this isn't always he case. People must want to not be prejudice. Unfortanatly the people who really need program's like this won't even go to sites like this. Ther is some disagreement about whether this works at all, I say it does because if you really want to change, you will be thinking activly thinking about the stereotypes anyway, and that if you do apply the stereotype you will feel badly about it (Devine's motivating force) David feels that this is much harder than that, and that there other things that combine to cause prejudice and to change those feelings. Other solutions include exposure, not seperation (an example of this is getting native kids to come to non native schools and vice vera) education, whenchildren are young you must actively teach them about how people of other races are the same and different and teach them to understand those differences.
One last point about the spanking question on the quiz. We understand what they are saying. Physically abused children are more likely to become racist and also they are more likely to abuse their own children. However, a lot of people do not consider spanking as abuse, they consider it disapline. The question is misleading and implies a judgement on anyone who does use spanking as disapline. It has only been in the last few years that the idea of spanking being a form of abuse. For our generation spanking was the form of disapline most used, and most probaly were only spanked a few times when they were children and do not consider themselves abused nor have they grown up to be racists.
By Angela on Monday, October 19, 1998 - 10:41 am:
By Admin on Monday, October 19, 1998 - 01:50 pm:
It is very apparent that Angela and David have spent a good deal of time discussing this Site.
Make sure you cut and paste (what you can) from the ICQ discussion (I don't suppose you have a phone log of your oral discussion as well, do you? 8) ).
And, can one of you help me learn how to use ICQ? I e-mailed you about having problems - I think because I don't have anyone to talk to!
Connie
By Rubina on Tuesday, October 20, 1998 - 12:15 am:
By Daki on Tuesday, October 20, 1998 - 01:59 am:
ICQ Chat Save file
Started on Sun Oct 18 21:51:17 1998
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<Angela> hey
<Angela> nice entrance
<Angela>
<DaKim> hey hey...thanks ;)
<DaKim>
<DaKim>
<DaKim>
<DaKim> asdf
<DaKim> asdf
<DaKim> sadf
<DaKim>
<DaKim>
<DaKim> go on...
<Angela> anyway, the only thing I..ok..I thought that the first site was a liitle easier in the sense that we can more easily realate it to real life
<Angela>
<DaKim>
<DaKim>
<Angela> ??? what do you think ???
<Angela>
<DaKim> I dunno...I hated the 1st dite !! I don't agreee with any of it...for example, Dr. Devine (?) thinks that Prejudice can be changed in 3 hours ar something...very noble, but impossible,. I also hate the fact he also thinks that prejudice and racism arises from "spanking your child?"
<DaKim> ugh...what a waste of my time...but yeah, I agree that there is more to talk about in the 1st one, even if I don't like it...I think its has more potential \
<DaKim> (btw, did you see the last assignment? we got a 3 ;)
<DaKim> also,
<DaKim> ok
<Angela> hold on a sec
<Angela>
<Angela> yah isn't that great..
<Angela>
<DaKim>
<Angela> oh yah I remember what I was going to say. The spanking thing is that it says that racism is common among people who have been physically abused.. I think that the question is wrong
<Angela>
<DaKim> I hope your right...
<Angela> that's what is under the "additional information section of the question
<Angela>
<Angela> answer
<Angela>
<Angela>
<DaKim>
<DaKim>
<Angela> did you read the section in the textbook
<Angela>
<DaKim> umm...no, not yet...I have a 40% midterm on tuesday...ugh
<DaKim>
<Angela> It was about Patricia Devine's research.. her hypothesis was that people are concious of the known stereotype, but the nonprejidice people understand that it is a stereotype and not true, and that prejudice people use the stereotype all the time. Also there is someevidence when people are tired, for example, they are more likely to be prejudice than when alert.
<Angela>
<Angela> So her experiment ws to unconciously get the stereotype of a black man into the mind of a group half prejudice the other not, and there was a control group that was not exposed to the "stereotype activation" process. After both groups were told a story about Donald who did some things that were considered hostile. nno mention of his rase was given. Anyway the "activated group responded more hostily to Don's actions than the non act. goup.. that's it basically
<Angela>
<DaKim> but what does it have to do with spanking a child? nothing.
<Angela>
<DaKim>
<Angela> she never said anything about that. J Cole whom the web page is about said that.
<Angela>
<DaKim> oh...ok. I dunno...I found the website pretty boring, although I am very much against prejudice and all that stuff. But I mean, to say that you can actively try and prevent prejudice is true up to an extent, but to say that you can completely change everyone's idea as to how to act, is impossible. Prejudice is so entrenched in our society that I don't think its really possible to do what Devine wants us to do.
<DaKim> I dunno...I might be wrong....
<DaKim>
<DaKim>
<DaKim>
<Angela> I'm not sure either, but both Devine and Cole talked about understanding that we all have the stereotypes in our minds, but we must unnderstand that thats all they are and that we can activily think about think about them i n our interactions with others until they become automattic!!
<Angela>
<Angela>
<DaKim> but can we think about them all the time...
<DaKim>
<Angela> no, but in the text Devine mentions that the motivating force for nonprejidice people is the guilt they feel after applying a stereotype
<Angela>
<DaKim>
<DaKim> I agre...I guess....although I don't agree with the idea of how easily Cole thinks we can change our attitudes towards prejudice...he makes it sounds black and white
<DaKim>
<DaKim>
<Angela> I dunno but i know that if I've even remotly thought of someone in a stereotypical way I feel guilty and I usually don;t aplly the stereotype
<Angela>
<DaKim> me too...but hold on one sec.....I defitely don't mean to be sexist in anyway...please believe me, but do you not agree that males, for the most part, are PHYSIOLOGICALLY more stronger than women?
<DaKim> (i.e hormones and muscle building capabilities?)
<DaKim>
<DaKim> and if that is the case, then wouldn't you agree that if you, say that you saw a woman construction worker, would you think even twice about it>?
<DaKim> ?
<DaKim>
<DaKim>
<Angela> I would think that it was great. I also would like to mention that there are women who are
<Angela>
<DaKim> Oh, I know I know,...and I don't think that they couldn't do the work any less\
<DaKim>
<DaKim> ...ugh...its kind of hard to explain..let me just phone you right now..is that ok?
<Angela> okay
<Angela>
<Angela> i'll get off
<Angela>
<DaKim> whats your phone number again
<Angela> 439 4667
<Angela>
<DaKim> ?ok
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During the phone conversation, Angela and I further discussed whether this was a realistic approach to reducing prejudice. We also talked about alot of personal examples and encdotes with respect to Prejudice, and how its so entrenched in society. We also discussed the fact that those who NEED to change their attitudes of prejudice are probably oging to be the last ones to take this course. As for the woman contstruciton worker, I was just mentioning that with society's influence on our idealogy of what is "correct" and "not correct" can adversely affect a person's judgement about someone, without really trying to be hateful in anyway (like being racist or sexist for that matter). And by the way, we don't have a phone log of our conversation...you might want to ask the phone company to see if they have one :)
By Patricia on Tuesday, October 20, 1998 - 03:35 pm:
Grade = +3